Feel the Pain - Arizona

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RichB
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Feel the Pain - Arizona

Post by RichB » Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:47 pm

Over the 4th we were camped near Bryce Canyon doing some trail riding. On day 2 a nice family pulled their WW in the next slot and we got to talking. Come to find out, they were from No. Cal and had been on vacation already for 2 weeks and had been all over duneing, trail riding, and playing tourist (Yellowstone, Dumont, St Anthony, No. Rim of the Grand Canyon etc).

Anyhow, the guy was telling me how they got kicked out of a campground in AZ a few days prior because they had the quads physically on the ground in the campsite. Note they didn't have them on the turf, they were just unloaded and sitting on the camp pad next to their toyhauler. :shock: They were told by a supervisor that quads could only be on a trailer within the campground and that they'd have to leave.

This is unreal, this was the nicest family I've met, just good law-abiding folks and for them to physically get kicked out of a campground just ticks me off to no end. Also, a co-worker of mine said him and a bunch of his buds all got tickets in AZ while hunting because their quads didn't have licence plates--all the while kids were riding around them with no helmets, tearing crap up etc.

What is up with AZ anyhow????????
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Post by jhitesma » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:01 pm

What kind of campground was it in the first bit? Was it a state campground? Where, I'd love to see the rules they've got. Was it a private campground, if so they can set just about any rules they like and I'd hardly blame it on the state it happens to be located in.

As for getting tickets for being unlicensed. Um...that happens in CA too it's not exactly an AZ thing. AZ even has easier cheaper more usefull registration options for OHV's compared to CA. I'd much rather pay a one time fee for a permanant plate than a yearly graft that goes into the pockets of greens. If they were from CA visiting AZ then they should have had CA registrations on their bikes. AZ recognizes CA registrations just like CA recognizes AZ's the last time I checked.

And AZ dosn't have a helmet law (unless things have changed in the past few days) so I'd be upset to hear about them giving out tickets to kids with no helmets just for not having helmets!

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Post by thor » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:25 pm

Pismo Coast Village has the same rules. It can happen... Sucks though...

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Post by Crowdog » Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:37 am

Rich,

Where were you camping/riding near Bryce? What is the riding like?

Jon

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Post by RichB » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:00 pm

jhitesma wrote:What kind of campground was it in the first bit? Was it a state campground?
It was either a state or federal CG and they asked the person on duty before they decided to stay. The authority they asked even told them they could ride the quads on a dirt road about 1/4 mile from the CG. It was a supervisor that later showed up and told them that they'd been misinformed and to leave.

For out of staters CA is very easy to get in compliance with. We can buy a yearly sticker here in Vegas and been good to go. AZ is a PITA from what my co-workers say; at least in regard to out of state folks. Nevada doesn't have any kind of licencing or "sin tax" (which is good) however, some states don't like that fact. At least Utah has a 14-day rule that we can operate under and like I said above, CA makes it easy for us to get legal.

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Post by RichB » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:03 pm

Crowdog wrote:Rich,

Where were you camping/riding near Bryce? What is the riding like?

Jon
Jon,

Yes we were about 4 miles as the crow flies from Bryce's main entrance. There's about 4 main ATV trails that intersect there now and we were riding on them. The scenery is awesome, the weather is usually around 70-80 degrees and Utah is the anti-California in regard to it's views on off-road useage/promotion. It's high country/mountainous riding starting at around 7500' up to about 10k on some nearby peaks. A lot of Bryce like scenery that only ATVers and snowmobilers will ever see i.e. spires, hoodoos etc.

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Post by jhitesma » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:42 pm

RichB wrote:
jhitesma wrote:What kind of campground was it in the first bit? Was it a state campground?
It was either a state or federal CG and they asked the person on duty before they decided to stay. The authority they asked even told them they could ride the quads on a dirt road about 1/4 mile from the CG. It was a supervisor that later showed up and told them that they'd been misinformed and to leave.
So which was it state or federal? Where was it? I'd still like to see their rules.
For out of staters CA is very easy to get in compliance with. We can buy a yearly sticker here in Vegas and been good to go. AZ is a PITA from what my co-workers say; at least in regard to out of state folks. Nevada doesn't have any kind of licencing or "sin tax" (which is good) however, some states don't like that fact. At least Utah has a 14-day rule that we can operate under and like I said above, CA makes it easy for us to get legal.
Well, according to your first post we weren't dealing with NV people. We were dealing with people from "nocal" and they are required to have their vehicles registered in their home state.

The AZ laws from what I've seen say that they accept others states registrations. But it varies greatly depending on what kind of land you're on.

On some AZ land no registration is required at all. On State trust land you need to have a permit. On Federal land it depends on the federal agency that owns it.

http://www.gf.state.az.us/pdfs/outdoor_ ... ochure.pdf

Some roads in the National Forests require your vehicle to be
registered. Roads marked with a horizontal number sign on
National Forests generally require motor vehicle registration.
Most roads marked with vertical numbered signs are generally
open to unregistered motor vehicles.
Public roads and highways crossing State Trust Land require motor
vehicle registration.
To travel on roads and trails not publicly maintained on State Trust
Land you must have a Recreational Permit. Permits are $15.00
for an individual and $20.00 for a family. The permits are good for a
twelve-month period from the date of purchase.
The recreation permit allows travel only on existing roads
and trails.
Cross country travel is prohibited except for hunters picking
up legally killed big game.
Chasing or frightening livestock or wildlife while hunting on
State Trust Land is prohibited.
Persons actively hunting or fishing with a valid license are not
required to obtain a recreation permit.
You may operate your ATV on some dirt roads in Arizona without
the need to register or insure your vehicle.

A.R.S. 28-2153.D.9 exempts an ATV or off-road recreational
motor vehicle from registration if you are operating on a dirt road in
an unincorporated area of the state. For the purposes of motor
vehicle registration and insurance, “dirt road” means an
unpaved or ungraveled road that is not maintained by this
state or a city, town or county of this state. The need for
insurance is exempted for the same vehicles under the same
circumstances by A.R.S. 28-4132.9.
This means that many roads on lands administered by the
Arizona State Land Department, Bureau of Land
Management, and Forest Service, are open for you to
ride without the need to make your ATV “street legal.”
A good rule of thumb is that if you see highway
signs such as speed limits or stop signs, or the road has
been developed or built up with gravel or natural materials,
your vehicle must be registered.
BTW - in AZ you only have to "register" your OHV if you want it to be street legal. If you only want to ride off road then all you need to do is have it titled. When you title an OHV though you do get a small motorcycle sized licence plate that is required to be displayed. But like all titles it's good for the life of the vehicle.

But the point is you're really not giving enough information to support the claims your friends have made. Without knowing where they were and what group was in charge of the land it's not fair to blame AZ anymore than it's fair for me to blame CA for the BLM's mismanagement of the dunes.

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Post by azsandrider » Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:04 pm

Jason is incorrect on OHV registration for Az residents.

ALL off road vehicles owned by Az residents are required to have, and display on the rear, an off road plate. The Az MVD charges a $12 one time fee for Az residents for permanent off road plates. You can be cited if you don't display the plate on your OHV, even during transport, although I've never heard of this being enforced.

Az recognizes vistors home state registration requirements. There is no non-resident Az OHV registration program like Ca has.

Az also allows OHVs to be street legal if the properly equipped, insured, and registered. My Bombardier DS650 has street registration on it.
(The above statement is my own opinion and not that of the ASA's.)

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Post by RichB » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:51 am

Ok ok, I give.

The original post was a 2 pronged statement that 1, stated that a half dozen or so guys I work with that used quads for hunting in AZ were all given grief (tickets) at one time or another; they are all out-of-state-users from NV. Apparently, AZ doesn't recognize that NV doesn't have any form of ATV registration (unlike Utah and it's 14 day allowance); this is probaby what is causing my coworkers a lot of problems if they try to use ATVs when they're hunting down there.

The 2nd thing I was relaying was a story from a California family we camped beside last weekend about how they were thrown out of a campground in AZ just because they had ATVs with them. Unfortunately, I don't have their full names or address to go back and ask them all the minutia.

I'm probably way off base and AZ may be the best nicest state ever (toward off-roaders) but from an out of stater's perspective it seemed like they were a bit unfriendly.

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Post by azsandrider » Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:21 am

RichB:

What were they given tickets for? I would like to know what statute they were written and if it was a state code or Federal code so I can research this. I'm a LEO in Az and would like to know so I can educate people appropiately so they don't get tickets.

I have not found any law that requires out of state OHV users to get a non-resident registration. If your state has OHV registration, then you must have it on your bike. If your state does not have OHV registration, there is no temporary Az registration for them and I have found no law requiring them to get one.

Is it possible they got tickets for not having state land use permits? There is a lot of open land in Az that belons to the state but is not considered "public land". This land is managed as a state land trust to benifit the public school system from fees generated from use of the land, or from sale of the land. A permit isrequired to be on state trust land, even to hike on it!!! I know it is enforced regulary.

If you friends were on a designated roadway, then they would need to be street legal. As for those people in the campground, from the sound of it, it sunds like a private campground. If not, and it was a state or federal campground, we need to know to make the appropiate complaints to the supervisor. This sound like another reason not to own a toybox type trailer, as you have to remove your ATVs to move around comfortably inside.

I peruse several nationwide ATV forums and Az is considered one of the friendliest OHV state in the country. People from back east are always envious of the freedom we have out here. Of course, they are some restrictions that must be complied with.
(The above statement is my own opinion and not that of the ASA's.)

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Post by Vincent J Brunasso » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:19 am

Yes we were about 4 miles as the crow flies from Bryce's main entrance. There's about 4 main ATV trails that intersect there now and we were riding on them. The scenery is awesome, the weather is usually around 70-80 degrees and Utah is the anti-California in regard to it's views on off-road useage/promotion. It's high country/mountainous riding starting at around 7500' up to about 10k on some nearby peaks. A lot of Bryce like scenery that only ATVers and snowmobilers will ever see i.e. spires, hoodoos etc.
Would those be good for a Jeep?
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Post by RichB » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:14 pm

I'll check with my buds and find out what exactly it was that they got ticketed for. I agree that there's many reasons that a moho w/trailer is a better combo than a toyhauler, but then again if a CG is so anti-atv that they won't even let them touch the ground then I'd prefer to camp somewhere else anyhow. :)

Vincent,

I would say that it's a pretty nice place for Jeeps (around Bryce) especially for folks that have street legal ones. Most of the trails around that area that I've hit are a cross between fire road and jeep trail, with very few places too tight for a jeep. Don't know if they frown on jeeps on the #'d atv trails or not but there's certainly miles and miles of backcountry fire road to explore if the others are not the best deal. Feel free to email/PM me if you need more info.

v/r

Rich

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Post by Mr Big Wrench » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:46 pm

Thor:
If you have to keep your toys inside your hauler at Pismo Coast Village, how do you go about getting them to the Beach :?:, (without moving the whole Truck and Trailer combo). I have a SHORT bed Chevy and both Quads will not fit safely in the bed, so it looks like 2 trips :?: It is also a pain for Us to get the 410# quad up into a 4 X 4, even with a ramp.

On a similar note,I was at the River in Arizona, many years ago, and had the dirt bikes out of the bed of the truck in a State Park. I was told to put them back in the truck and erase the tracks on the ground. He even loaned us a rake!! It was O K to ride across the road, just had to haul them over there in the truck, We offered to push them over there and back rather than load them in and out of a 4 X 4 several times a day. NOT the answer He wanted to hear, and I wanted NO part of a citation.
I guess the Moral of the story is to know the rules before you get slapped around by the local LEO's
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