Radio Frequencies used at the dunes

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jmhill5
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Radio Frequencies used at the dunes

Post by jmhill5 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:05 pm

There are radio frequencies used at the dunes in the 150-155 mhz range. PCI and at least one other company program radios used in desert racing and the dunes. Are there specific frequencies used at the dunes for car to car simplex useage? Also are there any popular PL's that are used or just using the radios with no PL? If so what are the frequencies that are being used.
I am asking this because I am programming two vhf radios for use between my son and myself while out there and to talk car to car.. I just would like to know if there are any channels that I should avoid or any that are good to use and monitor other duners...thanks for any replies to these questions.

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Post by LoBuck » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:05 am

I don't know what freqs the guys with race radios are using, but I do know there are several agricultural companies in the Imperial and Yuma Valleys using the 150MHz range.
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Post by jhitesma » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:40 am

That entire range is licensed and illegal for use without a license.

The frequencies that PCI and others programs in are in use locally by licensed users who are starting to get fed up with the interference they've been experiencing the past few years. There's also been incursion into the 144-145 weak signal amateur band and there have been a number of locals who are about ready to start reporting abuses to the FCC.

Please do everyone a favor and make sure you are operating legally. That means either acquiring a commercial license ($$$) or getting an amateur license (test). Otherwise you risk a $1000 for every time you key up the mic if people do start to complain.

FWIW - these are people who hunt hidden transmitters for fun. It's not hard at all to tell who's breaking the law when the guys with the ticket books get enough complaints and decide to make some examples. I really don't want to see our community get a black eye over this when it's so easy to operate legally.

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Post by jmhill5 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:53 am

I have a amateur license and would not operate illegally. Call sign KE7OHM. I have been working with different radios for many years, mostly when I farmed in the uhf and 800 mhz systems, and just got my amateur license. I was also involved in a company called Pro-Tec Communications in Casa Grande and actually started the company with some other local business people to compete with Motorola in the area at the time. I am real familiar with radios and people who operate an illegal operation and dont like it either....thats why I ended up getting a amateur license. I have also been in the hobby of using scanners and currently have two digital scanners and one race scanner to listen to the races in the NHRA when I attend (next race attending Pomona in Nov). Thanks

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Post by azpyroguy » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:06 am

Here are the freqs that I know of... these are from a PCI Race radio... and whats programmed into mine... (Stock Freqs), there are also 2-3 other sets of channels specifically programmed for SCORE racing... but this is what I am told is most commonly used at the dunes...

1 - 151.820
2 - 151.625
3 - 151.865
4 - 151.715
5 - 150.860
6 - 152.900
7 - 151.655
8 - 151.570
9 - 151.600
10 - 151.955
11 - 151.420
12 - 151.490
13 - 153.395
14 - 151.515
15 - 151.025
16 - 151.775
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Post by azpyroguy » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:44 pm

Here is some more...

CH. FREQUENCY NAME
1 151.625 WEATHERMAN
2 151.715 BFG RELAY
3 154.980 BAJA PITS
4 151.685 NETWORK
5 151.925 CHECKERS
6 150.860 FAIR
7 153.110 YOKOHAMA
8 152.960 CAMPEONES
9 151.505 CHECKERS VEGAS
10 153.395 BFG PITS
11 153.380 MAG 7
12 155.160 NATIONAL RESCUE
13 153.245 CORE
14 151.775 LOCOS MOCOS
15 151.490 BITD
16 154.515 PCI CUST RELAY
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Post by MR. PETE » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm

jhitesma wrote: Please do everyone a favor and make sure you are operating legally. That means either acquiring a commercial license ($$$) or getting an amateur license (test). Otherwise you risk a $1000 for every time you key up the mic if people do start to complain.

FWIW - these are people who hunt hidden transmitters for fun. It's not hard at all to tell who's breaking the law when the guys with the ticket books get enough complaints and decide to make some examples. I really don't want to see our community get a black eye over this when it's so easy to operate legally.
This is interesting. There are so many cars that have the race radios in them now. I'm sure that most do not even know that it is illegal to transmit without a license.

Can you explain how these "people" locate and track illegal radio usage especially when it is being done from a sand car?

The way the government works, I'm surprised that the FCC hasn't made any requirement of the seller when selling these radios to the public. Some sort of legal document notifying the buyer of the licensing requirements and the penalties for illegal usage.

Where can a person go to get the info on licensing?

Once a licence is issued do you have to get your own frequency or are there some sort of generic or public frequencies that can be used?
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Post by azpyroguy » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:01 pm

The way I understand it, is when you buy a radio from PCI (or other race radio company) they are licensed, and you are "riding" on their license to operate in that commercial range.


MR. PETE wrote:
jhitesma wrote: Please do everyone a favor and make sure you are operating legally. That means either acquiring a commercial license ($$$) or getting an amateur license (test). Otherwise you risk a $1000 for every time you key up the mic if people do start to complain.

FWIW - these are people who hunt hidden transmitters for fun. It's not hard at all to tell who's breaking the law when the guys with the ticket books get enough complaints and decide to make some examples. I really don't want to see our community get a black eye over this when it's so easy to operate legally.
This is interesting. There are so many cars that have the race radios in them now. I'm sure that most do not even know that it is illegal to transmit without a license.

Can you explain how these "people" locate and track illegal radio usage especially when it is being done from a sand car?

The way the government works, I'm surprised that the FCC hasn't made any requirement of the seller when selling these radios to the public. Some sort of legal document notifying the buyer of the licensing requirements and the penalties for illegal usage.

Where can a person go to get the info on licensing?

Once a licence is issued do you have to get your own frequency or are there some sort of generic or public frequencies that can be used?
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Post by jhitesma » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:04 pm

azpyroguy wrote:The way I understand it, is when you buy a radio from PCI (or other race radio company) they are licensed, and you are "riding" on their license to operate in that commercial range.
PCI's license is for a limited number of radios in a limited geographic area on a few frequencies:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... c=14448763

Thats their license for 151.625 - it allows up to 1,000 radios and is valid for mobile units in AZ, CA, NV under the callsign WPGK938.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... c=14448764

That's for 154.515 - again 1000 units operated in "75 MIRA PARKER AZ"

Those are the only two frequencies PCI has registered with the FCC. And they almost lost those a year or two ago - there are records on the FCC's ULS site indicating that they didn't bother to file to renew and had to appeal keeping the licenses as a result.

BTW - their eligibility for that license is listed as:

"90.75A1 - APPLICANT IS ENGAGED IN THE OPERATION OF MAINTENANCE AND SECURITY. RADIOS WILL BE USED
FOR BUSINESS COMMUNICATIONS. "

So the use they're selling them for is questionable as well.


Here's a copy of the Federal codes covering the land mobile radio service, notice in there is a list of public safety frequencies - many of which PCI is programing people's radios with:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/wais ... 90_00.html


I would highly suggest against posting or sharing that frequency list as transmitting on any of those frequencies without a license is illegal - and many of them are frequencies that you wouldn't be able to get a license for anyway and you could impact public safety services by transmitting on them.


The laws regarding sales of radio equipment are much more relaxed than the laws regarding what you can do with that equipment. Just like you don't need a drivers license to own a car but you do to drive one - you don't need a radio license to own a radio but you do to transmit with one.

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Post by MR. PETE » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:10 pm

Jason wrote:
PCI's license is for a limited number of radios in a limited geographic area on a few frequencies:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... c=14448763

Thats their license for 151.625 - it allows up to 1,000 radios and is valid for mobile units in AZ, CA, NV under the callsign WPGK938.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... c=14448764

That's for 154.515 - again 1000 units operated in "75 MIRA PARKER AZ"

Those are the only two frequencies PCI has registered with the FCC.
OK, does that mean that PCI radio owners are allowed to use those frequencies with out a license?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a call sign for? Does it have to be announced when using the radio?

In response to Jasons earlier post, Mr. Pete (me) asked:
Can you explain how these "people" locate and track illegal radio usage especially when it is being done from a sand car?
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Post by jhitesma » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:02 pm

MR. PETE wrote:Jason wrote:
OK, does that mean that PCI radio owners are allowed to use those frequencies with out a license?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a call sign for? Does it have to be announced when using the radio?
Any transmission other than CB/FRS requires a license. In most cases the license must be held by the person operating the radio - however in the business band it's possible for a company to hold the license and grant use of it to others. You'd have to talk to PCI for the specifics on who they authorize on their license.

The call sign is how you identify a license, on some radio services it must be included - but on business band it's usually not required that it be transmitted.

CB/FRS are both license free. However they are very limited in power, antenna and frequency. CB is 40 channels in the 29Mhz range while FRS is a set of channels in the 440Mhz range.

The other license exception is "part 15" which allows for very low power transmissions on almost any frequency as long as it does not interfere with licensed users. The little iPod FM transmitters are an example of a part 15 transmitter. Basically if you can hear the transmission from more than a block away it's too strong to fall under Part 15.
In response to Jasons earlier post, Mr. Pete (me) asked:
Can you explain how these "people" locate and track illegal radio usage especially when it is being done from a sand car?
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Doesn't matter if you're in a sandcar, street car, boat, airplane or bicycle. If you're transmitting then you're putting out a signal that can easily be tracked. All it takes is a highly directional antenna and a receiver coupled with some practice. Though there are also doppler setups that use a group of antennas and will zero right in on a signal, and if you have 1 or 2 other receivers then you can triangulate even quicker and get a fix on a signal.

The guys who track transmitters for fun usually work with a <1watt transmitter into a minimal antenna placed in a way to try and bounce it's signal in unpredictable ways. Tracking a moving sand car with a 50W radio is an order of magnitude easier.

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Post by MR. PETE » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:48 pm

Great answers, thank you!
8)
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