August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

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August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:50 am

Hosted by Extreme Performance !! =D> =D>
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ASA INFO MEETINGAugust 9, 2008
Extreme Performance
5486 Industrial Parkway
Building E
San Bernardino, CA
909 887 8000

Panel

Daphne Greene, CA State Parks Moderator
Phil Jenkins, CA State Parks
Mike Boxx, BLM El Centro Field Office
Neil Hamada, BLM El Centro Field Office
Ed Preciado, Imperial County Sheriffs Office
Quinn Palmer, US Border Patrol, El Centro Sector
Ben Vik, US Border Patrol, Yuma Sector


Agenda

9 am Show and Shine sign in Brian Crain & Bob Gagliano

10 am Welcome Bill Jones, ASA Chairman

Thanks to Hosts Extreme Performance

Meeting Objective "Dune Talk, Everything You Need to Know Whats Legal Whats Not

Q and A Protocol One hour for prepared questions
Half hour for group questions

Introductions ASA Board
Round Table Panel
Moderator

10:15 am Question and Answers Daphne Greene, CA State Parks

11:15 am Questions from audience

11:45 am Awards Bill Jones

Round Table Panel

Co-Hosts

Show and Shine
Also, we have added discussion of the Johnson Valley OHV/29 Palms situation and the impact of solar and wind machine renewable energy project on OHV to the agenda.

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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:58 am

I attended this same meeting in Phoenix a few months ago and found the new format [with show & shine] to be pretty interesting. In addition, the Off Road focused panel of speakers is like no other that you'll find these folks collected into the same place again. I plan to leave my house for this meeting at 8:30am on Aug 09.
I would love to drive a truck full of people to San Bernardiono.
If anyone reading this would like to Car-Pool, I have three empty seats and I'll pay for the gas. All you need to do is be at my place in Elsinore by 8:30am. :wink:
I expect to return to Elsinore after the meeting by 2:00pm at the latest.

Holler up if you're interested.
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Sandcock » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:13 am

I wouldn't mind coming with you................and sharing with the black gold/texas tea..............that's if you'll have me :D
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:37 pm

Scotty, you and any others are Certainly Welcome to join me, but the Texas tea is ALL mine [-X
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by ChuckZilla » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:45 pm

Myself and Rollthezee are attending.
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:11 am

Good deal Chuck. I'm in hopes that we have a good sized group. Its important to show the panel of speakers and EP that we are serious about this stuff.
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by ChuckZilla » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:23 am

There is a thread (forgot who started it) over at Glamis Dunes.com asking for attendance to this and so far there is a sizable group stating they'll be there. =D>
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:22 am

Woodglue wrote: I plan to leave my house for this meeting at 8:30am on Aug 09.
I would love to drive a truck full of people to San Bernardiono.
If anyone reading this would like to Car-Pool, I have three empty seats and I'll pay for the gas. All you need to do is be at my place in Elsinore by 8:30am. :wink:
I expect to return to Elsinore after the meeting by 2:00pm at the latest.

Holler up if you're interested.
The offer still stands for anyone who's interested.
Two seats are available in my truck.
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Washroad » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:29 pm

I will be there definitely! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I might even bring Gail for personal protection! :lol: :lol:
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Sandcock » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:35 pm

way to go ge.............i mean washr :D
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Sloppyduner » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:45 am

I'll be there for sure. HOPING that some B10K people show up. [-o<
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:54 pm

Following are the questions that will serve as the basis for the Round Table discussions. As you see, all the heavy hitters in our Community will be present!
ASA INFO MEETING - AUGUST 9, 2008

“Dune Talk, Everything You Need to Know”

“WHAT’ LEGAL! ---- WHAT’S NOT!”

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS

The following questions have been prepared in advance for the panel’s consideration. Their responses will be published on agency websites and in the ASA newsletter. Additional questions from the audience are welcome.

Round Table Participants:
Daphne Greene, CA State Parks, OHMVR Division – Moderator
Phil Jenkins, Ca State Parks, OHMVR Division
Mike Boxx, BLM El Centro Field Office
Neil Hamada, BLM El Centro Field Office
Ed Preciado, Imperial County Sheriff’s Office
Quinn Palmer, US Border Patrol, El Centro Sector
Ben Vik, US Border Patrol, Yuma Sector
??????????????, BLM Barstow Field Office
Greg Miller, BLM CA Desert District

CA State Parks

1. Is the Green Sticker program in Calif. going to be supplying any funds to the ISDRA to help keep the fees from going up in price?

2. Do you have to have a Non-resident permit for an Ariz. off road vehicle if you have an Ariz. RV plate mounted to your vehicle? If I do have a Non-resident sticker, is it necessary to have any other paperwork with the off road vehicle?


Imperial County Sheriff’s Office

3. Is the ICSO required to patrol the ISDRA?

4. In Calif. is it legal to drive any thing off-road if your driver’s license has been revoked or suspended?

5. What is the status of the secondary permits for towed in vehicles to prove they are exempt from requiring a regular pass and will this continue next year?

6. What is the law at the ISDRA regarding red and blue lights on any off road vehicle?

US Border Patrol

7. When riding in the area at the ISDRA South of I-8 and you accidentally cross the border, what should you do? What is the penalty for crossing the border accidentally?

8. Does the Border Patrol do anything at the ISDRA besides patrolling the border and if so, what?

9. If we see any suspicious activities at the dunes, how do we report it to the Border Patrol?

15. Is the Border Patrol going to be building a fence on the Mexican border thru the dunes?

10. I've seen the Border Patrol riding quads at the dunes with no whips, why wouldn't they have whips and doesn't it put all of us at risk when they don't have whips?

11. What is the best thing we can do to make the Border Patrol's job easier?

10. Is the border clearly marked? How will I know where the border is?

11. What type of documentation do I need to re-enter the United States?

12. Do I have any constitutional rights when I travel to Mexico?

13. What are the dangers associated with cross border traffic and how does that affect my recreational activities?


Bureau of Land Management
And
Imperial County Sheriff’s Office
Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area
Multiple Agency
Questions


14. What is required by law to have people ride in the back of UTV's (Rhino's, Golf Carts, Side X Side’s) at the ISDRA? Are Golf Carts in this category?

15. Are UTV's regulated by ATV laws/regulations or by laws/regulations relating to sand buggies at ISDRA? Are there laws/regulations that pertain to UTV’s? Is there a difference between laws/regulations in Calif. and Ariz. for UTV's?

16. Are there any age restrictions for driving a UTV off road in Ariz. or Calif.? What are the driving age rules for UTVs? Are the age rules different from golf carts or ATV’s?

17. Are there any distinctions made between golf carts and UTVs? Like engine size etc. Some Golf Carts have replaced high horsepower engines.

18. If I get a ticket at the ISDRA from a BLM ranger is it the same type of ticket that I would get from the Sheriff and do they enforce the same laws at the ISDRA? Are some Federal tickets and others County tickets?

19. Are there any speed limits at the ISDRA?

20. Why isn't the “ten foot” rule being enforced on Gecko Rd. and is there a “ten foot” rule on the road into the Key Hole campground at Buttercup?

21. Does the BLM tow vehicles away if they are left untended in the camping areas at the ISDRA?

22. Are the laws the same in Calif. and Ariz. for minors riding off-road?

23. Is it illegal to swim in the canals at the ISDRA?

24. Is it illegal to fish at the canals at the ISDRA?

25. Is there a law against towing someone on a board or something behind a vehicle or ATV at the ISDRA?

26. What are the laws for the decibel levels of vehicles at the ISDRA? Does it apply only to ATV's or all vehicles? Are the laws the same for Ariz.?

27. If you have an accident at the Dunes, are you required to report to someone?

28. Is a red tail light required at the ISDRA even if you are not riding at night?

29. Is a light required on your whip if you are riding at night?

30. Is a brake light required to be legal at the ISDRA?

31. Are most Calif. off-road regulations the same in Ariz. or Nev.?

32. Are seat belts required to be used on all the seats, front and rear on UTV's, Golf Carts, and Sand cars to be legal when riding off road in Calif. or Ariz.?

33. Is there reciprocity between Calif. and Ariz. regarding street legal ATV’s, UTV’s, and Golf Carts?

34. Is it ever legal to ride double on an ATV in Calif. or Ariz.?

35. Is a spark arrestor required on all off road vehicles? Are they required at the ISDRA? Are they required in Ariz.?

36. If you are riding a motorcycle at the ISDRA off road, are you required to wear a helmet?

37. When the Calif. Green Sticker Program funds an improvement in an area like the ISDRA, does it also continue to provide funds for the maintenance for that project?

38. When is a safety flag, on a whip, eight feet above the ground required at the ISDRA? A whip with a flag doesn’t appear to be required on motor homes or trucks when they are in camping areas but ATV’s are required to have them. Why does a truck need a whip with a flag at the drags near the Gecko Road if it isn’t going out in the dunes? The drags at Gecko are as flat as the camping areas. What is the rule of thumb on when a whip and flag are required?

39. Do Ariz. And Calif. driving and drinking laws apply off-highway? What is the rule on open containers? Can a passenger in my off road vehicle drink while I drive? What about on OHV designated trails at the Cinders near Flagstaff, Ariz.?


Bureau of Land Management
Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area


40. What is the deal with the gates at the canal Rd. being locked? With discussion about the canal road, how about giving some money for grading to the district if they open the canal road?

41. Are the fees going to go up at the ISDRA next season?

42. Is the BLM required to furnish EMS at the ISDRA? What is the Imperial County responsibility?

43. Why doesn't the BLM extend the road from Roadrunner to Dune Buggy Flats to provide more access to the dunes?

44. If I camp on private property within the ISDRA, do I have to have a permit? If not, do I have to have one to ride at the ISDRA?

45. What changes can we expect at the ISDRA next year? Who will be collecting fees?

46. A BLM Ranger at one of the comp. hills had no whip and when asked about it he said, that he was exempt, isn't it as necessary for the BLM as everybody?

47. If I get a ticket for not having a permit at the Dunes, do I still have to buy a permit? How much is a ticket for not having a permit at the Dunes?

48. How long do I have to get a permit after arriving at the Dunes?

49. What are the extra/new amenities from our ISDRA fees that will be implemented this year? Any plans for grey/black water dumps. Gravel in sandy areas in the camping areas?

50. With the visitation the ISDRA receives, why doesn’t it receive more funding?

51. In Arizona, If the OHV Bill does pass, will the new Indicia Plate ( sticker plate for OHV ) allow me to ride the street in any other state , like my MC plate Did?


Questions on SB 1228

52. Will the California State Park OHV Division be setting up locations for children to take the requited training?

53. Who will pay for this training?

54. How much will it cost?

55. Will any green sticker money be used for this program? If so how much is budgeted for this project?

56. If green sticker money will be allocated to this project what fund will it be coming out of?

57. If green sticker money is allocated to this project why should payees other than ATV registrations pay a portion of this project?

58. Is there a timeline to get the certification done?

59. Will there be grace period for getting the required certification?

60. How much is the fine for not having a certificate?

61. Why do children between the ages of 16 and 17 need to have an adult with them to operate an ATV? They can drive a car on the highway by themselves once they have a driver’s license.


Questions on renewable energy projects in OHV areas

62. How many current OHV areas are going to be affected by renewable energy projects?

63. If OHV areas are lost to renewable energy projects are the project owners required to provide other, equal OHV opportunities?

64. Is the State of California going to provide OHV areas equal in size for any areas lost to renewable energy projects?

65. Is the Federal government going to provide OHV areas equal in size for any areas lost to renewable energy projects?

66. If limited use areas are reclassified as open to allow renewable energy projects why can’t limited use areas be reclassified as open for OHV use?


Questions about the proposed land withdrawal in Johnson Valley

67. Who is working with the Marines on this land withdrawal?

68. Is the California state park OHV Division working to mitigate this loss of OHV area?

69. If this OHV area is taken by the Marines will other now closed areas be opened for OHV use?

70. Do the Marines need to do an EIS to withdraw this land?

71. What other documents do the Marines need to submit to withdraw this land?

72. Are there other areas that the Marines could use instead of the Johnson Valley OHV areas?

73. Could this area be used as an OHV area and occasionally be closed for Marine use?


ISDRA Fee Questions

74. Who will be selling permits for next season?

75. Where will they be available?

76. Can I trade in a weekly permit for a season permit after I have purchased it?

77. If I can’t find a location to purchase a weekly permit on my way to the ISDRA will I still have to pay the $40 for the permit at the ISDRA?

78. Is there going to be grace period to have a permit when I arrive at the ISDRA?

79. Are they going to have the second vehicle permits as they did last season?

80. What is the fine for not having a permit?

81. Where does the money from the fines for not having a permit go?

82. Can I use my seasonal permit for different vehicles that I may drive to the ISDRA?

83. Does BLM expect to have sufficient funding to cover ISDRA operations for the 2008-09 season?

84. Does BLM expect to raise the fee in the near future?


ISDRA Dumpster Questions

85. Why is BLM reducing the number of dumpsters?
86. Please provide a summary of where and when the dumpsters will be located.
87. How much will the 2008-09 dumpster program cost?
88. Will Law Enforcement personal be available to write citations for littering if trash is left on the ground at the dumpsters?
89. Does BLM expect to encounter a shortfall at ISDRA for 2008-09?
90. How much money has been barrowed to underwrite the curtailed dumpster program?
91. What is the source of the loan?
92. Will BLM request a fee increase to pay back the loan if insufficient fee money is collected to pay off the loan?
93. What are the various components of the litter education program?
94. Are there going to be signs put up in the areas where the dumpsters have historically been available or there is reduced amount of service?
95. How is the BLM going to get the word out on what is expected of the duners as far as their trash?

In addition:
The LA County Sanitation District will attend regarding the Mesquite Landfill. Also the new / yet to be determinded fee collection contractor will be in attendance.
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:58 pm

The aSa Board of Directors are calling for 10 volunteers to assist as Parking Directors and cleaning up after the meeting is over. If you Volunteer, you won't miss any of the meeting.

Please contact me with a post, PM or email just simply stating.... "I'M STEPPING UP!!!"

(When I attended the same meeting that the Arizona boys put on in Phoenix, I saw about 20 volunteers) Impressive!
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by tomjeeps2 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:03 am

CA State Parks
Following are the questions that will serve as the basis for the Round Table discussions. As you see, all the heavy hitters in our Community will be present!

Parks...

1. Is the Green Sticker program in Calif. going to be supplying any funds to the ISDRA to help keep the fees from going up in price?

2. Do you have to have a Non-resident permit for an Ariz. off road vehicle if you have an Ariz. RV plate mounted to your vehicle? If I do have a Non-resident sticker, is it necessary to have any other paperwork with the off road vehicle?
Well we certainly need to start asking some questions, the answer to item 1 is within another question which is why the Governors budget don't include more for grants, what they are purposing is to add around $8 Million for grants (nice) and over $20 Million for Parks and Division overhead (OMFG). So if you want more for Glamis, the ISDRA or any more money for anything other than an SVRA or Parks & Division, we need more for grants, only way to do that is to tell Parks to stop hogging the SB742 money than got after doubling our green sticker fees (yes my opinion)...TJ
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Jerry Seaver » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:54 pm

I heard today from some of the companies that bid the fee collection for next year and they got a letter saying that Worldwide Environmental Products (WEP) has been selected. WEP will have a representative at the Saturday Info meeting to tell us how they are planning on approaching the fee collection. They said that RFID's are going to be used in the permits. It will be interesting to hear from them on where permits will be available and how the RFID's will be used.

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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Vincent J Brunasso » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:44 pm

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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by crash » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:14 am

I guess that pretty much settles the argument about whether this whole thing is about writting citations or not.

On the plus side, it looks like this companies machines are all based on cell tower connectivity. The "officers" they will employ probably won't even be able to coherently write a citation without their handy-dandy hand held computers. Not saying anything should happen to the couple transmission towers that service the ISDRA area, but........ :wink:

Has anyone heard of any of those cell phone jamming devices that, supposedly, places like churches and court houses use to keep people from disturbing presentations? Sounds interesting. :D

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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by tomjeeps2 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:41 am

I've heard of "shielded rooms" being offered, where security minded people can meet without having to worry, about what well private conversations being broadcast via cell phone...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Jerry Seaver » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:29 pm

Very Nice Meeting. Around 200 people showed up and the panel of speakers were excellent. The Sandcars that were there for the show and shine, outstanding and the lunch was awesome.
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Sandcock » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:42 pm

Very first meeting for me and it will not be the last. I enjoyed the whole experience, especially meeting and putting faces to names, and chewing the fat with friends. Also, for Extreme's generousity :!: Thanks Andy =D> Thanks Joe (Extreme) for the tour of the shop. Great BBQ :!:

aSa is truley special organization to have the dedicated people who sacrifice their time and look after the duning community =D>

Thanks mikey woodyglue for the ride :wink:

When is the next meeting, I think I heard it is in San Diego :?:
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:22 am

Sandcock wrote:When is the next meeting, I think I heard it is in San Diego :?:
It's on October 18, 2008 in San Diego, Ca.
Details to be posted shortly. :wink:
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Washroad » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:39 am

To Allen and Melissa Nimmo,

Thank you for a Superb day!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by trextoo » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:13 am

When are the answers to the meeting questions going to be posted? I attended the meeting in Phoenix but was unable to stay for the entire thing.

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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by tomjeeps2 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:37 am

Yes, as great of host Extreme performance and the rest of you are, let's not forget why we did it in the first place...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by Woodglue » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:49 pm

In the What's Legal and What's Not --This Saturday -Mar. 29 thread, I posted…
Woodglue wrote:The questions were all answered verbally at the meeting by various LEO's and other officials.
The ASA will defer publishing the answers to the questions until all of the officials have confirmed the text of the responses. The goal will be to have them published in the Sand Sport Super Show ASA newsletter in Sept.

ASA is planning two more Info Meetings [like this one] this year. One in August in Ontario and another in October in San Diego.
I assume that this holds true now for the Az Meeting and the San Bernardino Meeting.

I know that the BLM Website has most of these answers posted as well. Click Here
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Re: August 09, 2008 - ASA Info Meeting - San Bernardino, Ca.

Post by tomjeeps2 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:16 am

Sounds reasonable it should be interesting, and yes of course the food was great, if you're doing this at your Volunteer events you'll have no problems with participation...TJ
The Country is ran by the few that show up.
They are lead by the even fewer that step up.

http://WWW.TEAMSTEALTH.ORG Noise issue information.
http://WWW.OHMVR.COM Total Off Road Recreation!

Tom Tammone

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