Project: Street Beetle to Subaru powered Sand Bug

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Post by snewbank » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:44 am

TroyB wrote:Its hard to tell, but it looks like the brake line is really close to the lower shock mount. If those two rub together you could end up with a hole in the brake line. Just wanted to point it out just in case you didnt notice.

Did you say you are going to the dunes this weekend. No way, you cant. You will not get anything done to the baja. I will have nothing to look forward to next week :lol:
They do run close to the lower shock mount but not actually touching it and the line seems rigid enough that even when hitting hard bumps it shouldn't touch anything. I hope.

I wish I could work in the Baja this weekend too but the season is passing me (us) by and we got to get some more runs in before it gets too hot.
Scott

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Post by Mattt » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:33 pm

Someone posted......
""I was going to dig up photos of Jasons old car and new car to show the difference between single and double shear""

Would someone mind posting those pics to show the difference between single and double shear?


Also, Snewbank mentioned some brackets earlier on that you got from McKenzies to widen the rear 3". Ive never seen these, could you post a pic of them? Where do they actually mount? Are they new trailing arm mounts? If so, and they move the trailing arms out further on the torsion, then how does the trailing arm attach to the spring plate? Thanks in advance.

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Post by jhitesma » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:35 pm

This is Jason's old car - the front A-arms are mounted in Single Shear where the botl goes though the Heim and is only supported on the threaded side:

Image

I don't know where he's got the photos of his new car stashed but you can see one that he posted earlier showing the rear shock mounted double shear where the bolt is supported both on the threaded side and next to the head. This is also a shot of his old car but the rear shocks were still double shear so the photo still shows the difference:

Image

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Post by snewbank » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:43 am

Mattt wrote:Someone posted......
""I was going to dig up photos of Jasons old car and new car to show the difference between single and double shear""

Would someone mind posting those pics to show the difference between single and double shear?


Also, Snewbank mentioned some brackets earlier on that you got from McKenzies to widen the rear 3". Ive never seen these, could you post a pic of them? Where do they actually mount? Are they new trailing arm mounts? If so, and they move the trailing arms out further on the torsion, then how does the trailing arm attach to the spring plate? Thanks in advance.
Unfortunately, I already returned the torsion housing extenders since I didn't use them. Too bad, I wanted to trace them out on some paper, scan it in to my computer and post it in the fabrication section so others could make them from scratch but I never got around to it.

Anyway, to answer your question, there are four parts in the kit. Two torsion tube end plate extensions and two trailing arm mounts.

Basically, the torsion tube end plate extensions consist of a stock end plate (bolts on to your existing end plates just like an end plate cover) and a 3" long tube that is welded to it and then another end plate with wider spaced bolt patterns to allow for more swing plate travel is welded on to the other end of the tube.

Then you just weld in the new trailing arm mounts 3" farther out on the torsion tube than the stock ones.

Hope that helps.
Scott

Idaho Falls

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Post by snewbank » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:48 am

FYI - I've been sick since last Wednesday so I haven't got anymore work done. I hope to get some stuff done this week though.
Scott

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Post by porboy » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:23 pm

Man! I saw that you posted and I got a big smile on my face. Hurry up and get better, we all love the updates. :D

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Post by NE14SAND » Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:21 am

WOW! THAT TOOK FOR EVER TO READ FROM THE START!!! I COULD NOT WALK AWAY FROM THE SCREEN =D> PLEASE KEEP IT UP------ SWEET
if the green cones are out all is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by vdubduner » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:44 pm

just got back from glamis and hoped to see some new pics,say alot of bajas out this weekend for some reason,must have something to do with reading this thread,keep up the progress.
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Post by snewbank » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:46 am

Last time we went out, I saw two baja bugs. Prior to that I didn't see any out there. People are stealing my idea!! :)

At least these two we pretty much stock suspension bugs and one had a Nissan motor or something.

BTW - I got some work done this weekend and hope to post an update with pictures today.
Scott

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Post by snewbank » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:55 pm

Well, I finally got some stuff done this weekend. I finished-up the fuel lines then I fabbed-up a rack to mount the Radiator and AC Condenser to. Here's some pictures of the rack with the Radiator and Condenser mounted.

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Sunday, I did some work on the engine (changed spark plugs and plugged some unused hoses) and installed the engine. Here's some pictures of the engine installed.

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I have to remove the engine though. I can't get the clutch lever on the transaxle to go back far enough to get the clutch cable on. I tried using a crow bar for leverage but it wont budge. I think there is something on the pressure plate that has to come-off. Specifically, I have a Kennedy pressure plate and in the installation destructions (which I didn't read) it says something like "This plate is configured for early-type (pre '71) floppy style throwout bearings. It can be converted to work with a late-type bearing by removing some clip or something". My brother an I just replaced the throwout bearing and pressure plate on his buggy a few weeks ago. He had the same exact thowout bearing and pressure plate as I do and I remember reading this same thing in the instructions. It took us a while to figure out what they were taking about removing from the pressure plate (now I can't remember what it was) and ultimately we decided we didn't need to remove it and his works fine. I guess that's why I didn't bother with it when I put it on. I have a stage 3 plate so it's also possible that it just requires that much more force to get the clutch cable on but I have a feeling it's something more so I need to take the engine off to figure it out.

Also, even though I've had this engine for awhile now, this is the first time I've really sat down and looked at everything on it. There are still a number of holes covered with duct tape and cut hoses that I need to plug or do something with. It's hard to tell what some of the stuff is for. I have a Haynes Subaru manual but of course I can't find descriptions for a lot of the stuff in there. I got a pretty good idea what some of the stuff is but I'm not sure what I need to hook-up and what to just plug. For instance,

There are coolant lines going into and out of the throttle body. What's up with that? Do I really need carb heat? Is icing a real problem with cars?!? I think I'll just plug these.

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Then there's hose connections on the top of the valve covers. I take it these I just for breather hoses. I guess I need to put some breather air filters on these.

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Then there's like four holes in my intake manifold. One is plugged already. Our these for vacuum lines?? Isn't there already a vacuum line on the throttle body? What are these for?

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Then there's the heater hoses. Can I just plug these or do I need to have some coolant bypassing the thermostat. Also, it looks like there are some smaller hoses that bypass the heater core for the throttle body. Can I plug these?

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Then there's this other hose connection (see duct-taped hole in picture below) that I don't have a clue what it's for! It doesn't look like coolant has been through it. Is this some smog (vapor recovery) thing? Can I just plug it or do I need to connect it to something?

Image


Next on the agenda, I need to make the radiator hoses and I need to come-up with some kind of intake duct for the air filter to throttle body. As you can see from the picture below, there isn't much clearance between the throttle body intake and the firewall (I knew I was going to have to deal with this problem eventually). I will probably do a combination of cutting into the firewall and a tight bend on the intake duct.

Image
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Post by porboy » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:40 pm

There is a clip in the middle of the pressure plate that you will need to remove. It takes about 2 seconds. It is looking awesome and that radiator mount is begging for an aluminium wing.

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Post by jhitesma » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:07 pm

If your tranny has the tube around the input shaft then there is a small disc in the center of the pressure plate held on with a circlip that you need to remove.

This is how they come from Kennedy - setup for the early style throwout bearing:

Image

But if you have a tranny with the tube around the input shaft:

Image

Then you need to remove that center disc to work with the late style throwout bearing:

Image

I'm curious how you're setting up the fans? If they're setup to blow though the radiator then it seems they'd be working against the natural airflow over the car. But if they're setup to suck though the radiator then you're just blowing all that hot air right back on the motor.

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Post by kev » Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:05 pm

Scott, I love seeing how your welding has gotten better. When you started this the weld's were begging for the grinder :wink: . Now they are looking really good. Like everyone else I look forward to the update's. Of course when you get done with this you will have to start another project to keep us entertained :lol:

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Post by LoBuck » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:03 pm

porboy wrote:It is looking awesome and that radiator mount is begging for an aluminium wing.
Scott, It IS looking awesome! I was thinking a 'whales tail' look for the radiator.
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Post by r erfert » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:23 pm

LoBuck wrote:
porboy wrote:It is looking awesome and that radiator mount is begging for an aluminium wing.
Scott, It IS looking awesome! I was thinking a 'whales tail' look for the radiator.
Lobuck...Whale tails are for street cars :)
I vote for the wing for the offroad aplication.

With the clutch/throw out bearing thing...I try to remember if the trany has a sleeve the bearing doesn't need the ring.

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Post by snewbank » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:02 am

Jason H, thanks for the pictures and explanation. You just saved me the trouble of removing the engine for nothing because it doesn't look like I need to remove that disc. I was pretty sure there wasn't any tube around the throwout bearing but I went back through my pictures archives to verify anyway. Here is a picture of my tranny with the throwout bearing installed and there definitely isn't any tube around the input shaft.

Image

So that means something else is causing the problem. If there is indeed a problem at all. I just find it hard to believe that the stage 3 pressure plate would be so hard to disengage. I can get it to move about 1/2" no problem until the bearing starts to contact the pressure plate but it wont budge after that. In fact, it feels like if I use anymore force I might crack or twist the throwout bearing shaft. I guess I'll try it again as long as no one can think of any other things that might be causing a problem. I might have to fabricate a special tool just to get the leverage on it. Well see.

BTW - The fans are designed to suck air from the top through the radiator. I understand a vacuum creates more cooling than compressing the air through the radiator. Yes, this means hot air will be blowing on to the engine. However, I don't see this as to much of a problem since this is what happens in a regular car too. One thing I am concerned about is finding a good spot for the air filter so I wont be sucking hot air into the engine. Hot air in the intake means less expansion during combustion which means less horsepower and we can't have that :)


Jason G, it would be easy to add aluminum wing tips. I'm just having a hard time figuring out what shape angle would look right.


Kev, it's weird, just when I think I got the welding thing down, I lay down another crappy bead like my first ones. Dohhh!!

I'm just now starting to get a feel for the right Current/Wire Speed settings for whatever thickness I'm working on. The Welder has a settings guide for various gauges of metal but it's not very accurate sometimes.
Scott

Idaho Falls

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Post by smerchan » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:26 pm

I am certainly no expert but I believe the Subaru intake manifolds can be mounting in either location with the throttle body towards the front or the rear. I would check with Mac or John at Outback for sure.
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Post by porboy » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:11 pm

Maybe something like this?

Image

:D

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Post by Bob Tenwick » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:59 pm

I would be concerned that there's too much leverage on that radiator mount. Can it be braced in the rear? (under the wing :lol: )

By the way, nice job so far!

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Post by jhitesma » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:00 pm

On the pressure plate / throw out bearing thing.

It's actually the type of bearing not the presence or absense of the tube - but one style of bearing is designed to work with the tube and one isn't.

I don't have any photos of a tranny/bearing that uses the plate with the collar installed to compare - but the bearing on yours looks a lot like the bearing that's used without the collar. It's also kind of hard to tell from that angle but it looks like there MIGHT be a tube.

Also I've only delt with Type 1's. I don't know if the bus tranny uses the tube or not or how to tell one bearing from another on it.

But your bearing does look a lot like the late style Type1 bearing that needs the collar removed from the pressure plate. I think the easy way to tell the difference is by looking at the mounting ears.

I found these on the net:

Image

Image

This guys page has more photos: http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/6v_12v.htm

I'm just guessing but it could be your tranny is an earlier one that didn't have the tube...but when it was rebuilt they installed the new late style throw out bearing?

Kind of hard to tell from the photo but it does kind of look like a late style bearing.

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Post by snewbank » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:10 pm

smerchan wrote:I am certainly no expert but I believe the Subaru intake manifolds can be mounting in either location with the throttle body towards the front or the rear. I would check with Mac or John at Outback for sure.

Ahh Haaa!!! That is correct. However, when you turn the intake manifold around, you have to relocate the alternator. Outback makes a mount that moves the alternator over to where the AC Compressor would go but then where do I put the AC Compressor :( Also, if I want to add a turbo later, the throttle body might interfere with the turbo.

:idea: Maybe I should revisit this idea. Maybe I can make a bracket to mount the alternator where the Power Steering Pump used to be. It would be cleaner than cutting a hole in my Firewall. Also, after mounting the exhaust header and looking at the pictures, it doesn't look like it would interfere with a turbo. Maybe this is doable :)
Scott

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Post by LoBuck » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:04 am

snewbank wrote:One thing I am concerned about is finding a good spot for the air filter so I wont be sucking hot air into the engine. Hot air in the intake means less expansion during combustion which means less horsepower and we can't have that :)
Scott, How about cutting a hole in your firewall and running snorkel thru it to an air filter inside of the car. Solve both problems.

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Post by snewbank » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:49 am

Regarding the throw-out bearing, it is definitely the early style. I remember the clips and stuff are just like the ones in the picture.

BTW - I think I know what the problem is. I think my clutch cable is too short (or bowden tube is too long). Because when I push the clutch lever on the tranny back and I can feel where the throwout bearing starts to contact the pressure plate, the clutch cable end is still about 1/2" too short to reach the hole in the lever. This means that even if I could get the lever far enough back to thread the wing nut, the clutch will be partially disengaged with the wing nut adjusted as far out as possible. I'm thinking the easiest way to fix this would be to shorted the bowden tube. It seems like there is too much bow in it anyway. I might not even need the bowden tube since I have extra supports for the tranny horns. It should keep the engine/tranny from twisting much when I let out the clutch. I need to look into this further though.

Image

Regarding the wing support not being strong enough, I'm a little concerned about this too. I wanted to make the bottom diagonal tube longer where it would weld farther out on the top tube but the radiator itself would interfere with this and I would have to make a much more elaborate support in order to make that work. Fortunately, the 1" sq tubing (I think it is .083 wall) is pretty rigid and it doesn't seem like there will be any problem with it (even with a radiator full of water). However, I'm concerned about the firewall flexing where the wing mounts to it. The 1/4" aluminum diamond plate helps to make the firewall more rigid but I can still get the firewall to flex a little with the wing mounted. There is one thing I can do to make it stronger without too much work. I could make a bracket to connect the top and bottom wing mounts to the rear roll cage supports (see picture). This would definitely keep the wing from flexing the firewall.

Image

Regarding cutting a hole in the firewall and putting the air filter inside the car, this is one option I was considering but there are a few drawbacks to this:

1.) It would use-up space in the rear compartment where I might be putting a subwoofer.
2.) It might suck all the air out of the car. Not a problem normally but if it's hot out and I'm running the AC it may suck all the cold air out. I want the AC to be as efficient as possible with recirculation.
3.) I would have to make the hole considerably oversized so if the engine moves around at all it wont pull the air filter off the throttlebody in which I would be sucking sand straight into the engine until I noticed it was pulled-off.
4.) It will probably make it noisier inside the car.
5.) It may make the inside wreak of gas.

On the positive side, I would probably never have to clean my air filter :)

Regarding the wing shape design, I was thinking of using Paint Shop Pro to do the same thing as Porboy. I'll have to try a few variation to see which looks best but Porboy's looks pretty good too.
Scott

Idaho Falls

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Post by mawieche » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:36 pm

I really like this project with the pictures and all. About the bowden tube.. Maybe the location has changed with the different trans. Perhaps a tube off of a bus would work or modify the mounting bracket bolted to the trans. The air intake could have recessed box cut into the fire wall perhaps an inch or so just enough to clear a 90 degree hose or visit the junk yard for a very flat 90 for clearance. just a thought.
Just a dune dummie.

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Post by Intelliduner » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:45 pm

I'm no expert on the bowden tube, but everything that I've read WRT them on street cars indicates that they are very sensitive and that the bends must be maintained as close as possible to stock or the clutch will not work well. A major re-engineering of it is probably asking for trouble like this :?

_dennis (no help at all :wink: )

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Post by jhitesma » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Rick (r erfert) will probably chime in here...but I just had some nightmares with the bowden tube on my Manx. I can attest to the fact that even small changes can make a BIG difference. My tube was too short and because of that it was REALLY hard to get going in 1st gear because the clutch would chatter.

Rick machined up a little adapter that lengthened my tube and positioned it better - now I can shift with no problems.

So even if the bowden tube seems to work in the garage - when you go out driving you may find it's causing issues if it's not just right.

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Post by quad1100 » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:39 pm

Intelliduner wrote:I'm no expert on the bowden tube, but everything that I've read WRT them on street cars indicates that they are very sensitive and that the bends must be maintained as close as possible to stock or the clutch will not work well. A major re-engineering of it is probably asking for trouble like this :?

_dennis (no help at all :wink: )
Anyway you can mount a slave cylinder on there and run a hydraulic clutch line?

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Post by snewbank » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:04 pm

quad1100 wrote:
Intelliduner wrote:I'm no expert on the bowden tube, but everything that I've read WRT them on street cars indicates that they are very sensitive and that the bends must be maintained as close as possible to stock or the clutch will not work well. A major re-engineering of it is probably asking for trouble like this :?

_dennis (no help at all :wink: )
Anyway you can mount a slave cylinder on there and run a hydraulic clutch line?
For a couple hundred bucks I could install a hydralic pedal assembly but then I would have to cut holes in the front firewall to get it to fit. It would be a whole big mess and that's $200 out of my already very tight budget for something that doesn't add any real performance and can add more maintanence problems so I'm going to avoid that if at possible.
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Post by NE14SAND » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:37 pm

your hydralic cable would never break :wink: that seems like a positive to me just my 2 cents bro
if the green cones are out all is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by LoBuck » Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:58 pm

Check out Wilwood Engineering. This is the slave cylinder I have on my Jeep. It Pulls. I'm thinking it was about $60.

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I bought one of the British master cylinders for about $40.
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Post by quad1100 » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:42 pm

Well they both have there bad points, just thought the hydraulic one had a few more positive ones. Hate to see you skimp on the drive train stuff.

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Post by Paleale » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:56 pm

Thats what I would do, Go with a nice CNC pedal set-up and you won't have to worry about it any more...
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Post by TLB » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:24 pm

I have the CNC slave on mine and it works slick.

Don't you just hate it when the buget get's in the way?
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Post by r erfert » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:41 pm

Scott,

You still have a welder right :)
If all you are short is 1/2" find out what the size and thread is and weld on another inch or so.
You can always cut the cable and extend it with another clutch cable. reattaching them using cable clamps like most people do.

chiming in...I was told that the bowden tube is in a sense for preloading/tensioning the clutch cable...1/2" bow in it is what I try to keep.

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Post by TroyB » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:30 pm

WOW! Nice job Scott :D Not sure how a baja will react in a rollover, but when a rail rolls the wing is almost always destroyed.

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Short clutch cable

Post by bigwheel » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:39 pm

I ran into the short clutch cable problem with my sons baja with a bus trans.There is a longer cable available I think its for 74 and up bugs. We had the parts guy at so cal imports measure up the differance in the 2 different part numbers he had listed. Solved our problem. Buy plenty of spares.

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Post by Hopper » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:48 am

If you still need an Ideal for you intake manifold? You can use a different intake, as long as your bolt spread is 19.250” wide. This intake is 1.5” shorter to the back of your block from your current one. The problem with them is that they sell for around $350
Check your bolt spread and let me know.

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Post by snewbank » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:48 pm

I have really been slacking the past couple of weeks. Which is why I haven't been posting. This weekend, I started on it again. Here is where I am at.

The Clutch Issue:

I shortened the bowden tube and was able to finally get the wing-nut on. However, when I press down the clutch peddle, it feels like there is a lot of stress on it (making creaking noises and such). The clutch appeared to be engaging a little but not as much as it should. I noticed the stress was so great that even the bowden tube was flexing. Finally, I decided to take back my Stage III pressure plate (2600#) back to Outback and replace it with a Stage II Plate (2100#). Also, I got a new Bowden tube as my other one was showing signs of wear. I put it all in yesterday and the clutch peddle seems a little smoother but there was still this clinking, creaking sounds. I got a flash light and looked down the center tunnel from the front clip and had my girlfriend press on the clutch pedal a few times. Sure enough, the whole clutch tube inside the tunnel was flexing by huge amounts. I could see one of the standoff mounts had broken-off and alas, there is no way to get in there to weld it back on (aside from cutting a hole in the tunnel).

So, it looks like I might have no choice but to go with a Hydraulic Pedal Assembly "ka-ching :( ". I noticed PCU and Moores has an HPA for $150 and it looks like it might mount in a beetle with out too much work. However, I don't think the brake master cylinder has a brake light switch and I don't know how many brake line ports it has. I want to have brake lights since my brothers buggy doesn't stop very well :shock: One time I went over a razor back and directly on the other side was a witches eye. I managed to stop just before going into it. But...then my brother came over the hill behind me. I remember looking in my rear view mirror cringing :shock: He locked-up his brakes but because it was a steep downhill he kept sliding. Bang! and he pushed me right into the witches eyes. It took us about half an hour to get my rail out of it (bad angle, kept burying itself) and I had a semi-crushed exhaust header to show for it :( I doubt brake lights would prevent something like that from happening again but in the future, I want to give as much warning as possible when I am slowing/stopping.

It might be possible to adapt my brake switch to a brake line port if I can get a splitter. I will have to check that out.


Air Filter to Throttlebody Intake Duct:

Last weekend, I made it my mission to solve the intake duct problem. I special ordered a 2.75" ID Radiator Hose (used mostly on Semi-trucks) that had a real tight 90 degree bend in it ($30). I then went to the local Midas shop to see if I could get some short lengths of 2.75" OD muffler tubing but all they had was 2.5" and 3". I tried a number of other places and couldn't find any 2.75" OD tubing anywhere. I got home all frustrated whining about it to my girlfriend and then she said "What about the old Corvette exhaust system that has been sitting in the backyard for years" (I replaced the stock cat-back exhaust on my Corvette a few years ago and it has been sitting in the backyard every since. People have been trying to get me to throw it away for years but I kept saying "No way, it's Stainless Steel. I can sell it in the Recycler ". I never did. Dumbfounded, I grabbed my calipers and ran to the backyard. Sure enough, it was 2.75" OD tubing :) I grabbed my skillsaw and started cutting away. See! it pays hang on to worthless crap. ....sometimes. There was even some choice bends in it I ended-up using :)

Anyway, I trimmed off on end of the Radiator Hose to get the 90 degree bend as close to the throttle body as possible. Then I cut an oval hole in the diamond plate I mounted on the firewall. Then I hammered a dent into the firewall itself. This provided enough room for the intake duct (radiator hose) to clear the firewall as it curved back to the engine. See picture.

Image

I wanted to mount the air filter horizontally to the firewall and as close to it as possible to get it out of the hot air stream of the radiator fans. I spent some time looking at the radiator hose to figure out how I could cut it so I could rotate the bends in the hose, mend them together with exhaust pieces and put the Air filter right where I wanted it. Then I made my cut. It was all wrong :( So I improvised :) Here is the finished intake duct with air filter attached.

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I'm hoping the air will dam-up a little on top of the radiator and be forced down in-between the radiator and body and my air filter will be in a stream of cold air.


Radiator Hoses:

Next on the agenda is getting the Radiator Hoses figured-out. I tried hitting a number of Auto Parts stores and it appears that you can't just buy straight radiator hose off a spool cut to the length desired. I need long runs about 40" for each hose. Even if I could buy it at the length I need, it turns-out that radiator hoses are less flexible than I was thinking they were. Specifically, If I try to put any kind of tight 90 degree bend in it, it will collapse the hose and restrict flow. Originally, I was going to have the hoses custom made (molded) but it turns out the place I thought could do it, doesn't do it. More over, I'm not sure molded hose can even be done as a one-off at a low price. What the AP stores do have is precut lengths on universal flex-hoses. I might be able to use some of these in combination with some 90 degree 1.5" metal tubing. I will check this out tonight.
Scott

Idaho Falls

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Post by porboy » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:53 pm

Nice progress. If you do go with hydraulic pedals don't sweat the brake light. You can buy a pressure switch for brake lines and it is super easy to hook-up. I have one in my rail. You can see it just to the left of my cutting break.
Image

As far as the radiator hose, you can also use rubber connections at the motor and radiator and use tubing for the longer runs.

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Post by quad1100 » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:42 pm

Sure enough, it was 2.75" OD tubing
Lets here it for us pack rats!!!

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Intake

Post by normalario » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:43 pm

Great work on the bug. I found a piece that will fix all you intake problems????
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 94802&rd=1

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Intake

Post by normalario » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:45 pm

Great work on the bug. I found a piece that will fix all you intake problems????
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 94802&rd=1

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Post by snewbank » Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:22 pm

Actually, the J-tubes people use for turbos would still go too far into the firewall to work. If/when I decide to install a turbo, I can use the same radiator hose type manifold I'm using now.

BTW - I hope to have more pictures tomorrow of stuff I've done.
Scott

Idaho Falls

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Re: Intake

Post by Rubths » Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:30 pm

normalario wrote:Great work on the bug. I found a piece that will fix all you intake problems????
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 94802&rd=1
Looks like that Assssshole Steve at Johnsons is peddling his junk on ebay now :roll:

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Re: Intake

Post by porboy » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:05 pm

Rubths wrote:
normalario wrote:Great work on the bug. I found a piece that will fix all you intake problems????
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 94802&rd=1
Looks like that Assssshole Steve at Johnsons is peddling his junk on ebay now :roll:
It's actually not Steve. It is another guy in Spring Valley who is building these motors that are for sale. Fibertech is a distribitor for them now. Nothing to do with Johnson's

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Post by snewbank » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:59 am

Well, I finally found some 1.5" Radiator hose. It was more than I wanted spend ($50 for 8' but list was $14 per foot). It's not very flexible though. I went to Home Depot and bought some chrome plated copper 1.5" bathroom sink J-tubes ($4 each). I cut them down to get the 90 degree bends I needed. The plumbing went pretty fast and easy. Here is a picture of the finished work. (Before I changed it).

Image

Image

Also, I bought some 1/8"x3/4"x36" aluminum strips and was able to make some kool looking hose brackets out of it. Here is a picture of one.

Image

They were real easy to make. I just took some scrap 1.5" tubing, slipped a scrap of radiator hose over it and then I used a pair of vise grips to hold the aluminum strip to the tubing/hose, put the tube in a vise and wrapped the aluminum around the hose and drilled a hole for the bolt. I might even polish them to get the "polished billet aluminum" look.

The bottom hose run came out pretty good but the top hose run has a lot of joints in it as you can see. It looks real convoluted (like the plumbing under the house). Afterwards, I realized it might be possible to flip the top coolant manifold around so the top coolant hose would exit near the passenger side of the firewall. Then I could route the top hose up the side of the radiator rack. It would be a lot cleaner that way and just eyeballing it, it looked like the bolt holes would line-up if I flipped. I just called Outback and talked to Lance. You can flip the top coolant manifold around. However, they don't recommend it because instead of the coolant flowing out of the passenger side of the block and into the driver side of the block, it will tend to exit the passenger side of the block and go straight out to the radiator. They said the have seen people do it though.

The more I thought about this, The more I thought the way they described the coolant flowing was incorrect. You would have to look at the coolant manifold on a 2.5 SOHC to see what I'm talking about but it seems like the coolant exits the block on both sides and into the coolant manifold which drains it into the radiator. I could not see how coolant could be forced out of one side of the block and go into the other side if there was a third hole that led to the radiator. And how would the coolant going into the other side ever get to the radiator? So when I got home, I pulled the coolant manifold off and had a look. Sure enough, all three holes ended-up in the same chamber. I was able to flip it around but I had to cut the radiator hose connection shorter so it wouldn't hit the firewall when turned around. With this new setup, I was able to re-route the top coolant hose. Here are some pictures of the new setup.

Image

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Also, yesterday I bought a hydraulic brake pedal assembly. I splurged a little and bought a Jamar BP2000X.

Image


It only has one brake line port on the brake master cylinder and I need four (2 for the front brakes, 1 for the turning brake and one for the brake light switch. Rather then buying three brake line tees and having a rats nest of brake line running everywhere, I'm going to try and make my own brake line splitter with five connections using a small block of aluminum and drill it out and tap it. It should be fun. I hope.

Also, I bought a Stinger exhaust and baffle (as you can see in the above pictures). I need to cut the base-plate off and weld on a new one to fit my header with a T03 base-plate. I hope to get both of these installed this weekend as well as a number of other little things done.
Scott

Idaho Falls

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Post by quad1100 » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:35 pm

Scott, it's looking good. I definitely like the second attempt at running the hoses, looks much cleaner.

You might want to think about running a proportioning valve on the break line, at least it would give you the ability to change the ratio between the front and back?

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Post by Paleale » Sat May 01, 2004 11:06 pm

You might want to think about running a bigger bore master cylinder if you are going to run front brakes, also a proportioning valve will work better than a tee. The inline brake light sensor works great that is all I have ever used.
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Post by mrlongtravel » Mon May 03, 2004 11:24 am

You want the hose line to the the crossover on top of motor to be the opposite side of the pump for the reason being that the coolant will flow the same distance, to both sides of the block before coming back together at the crossover. If you do it on the same side, coolant will take the path of least resistance and you will get less coolant flow on one side of the block versus the other side. Subaru had a reason for having the crossover conection point opposite side of the pump.

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Post by snewbank » Tue May 04, 2004 10:51 am

quad1100 wrote:You might want to think about running a proportioning valve on the break line, at least it would give you the ability to change the ratio between the front and back?
I'm thinking about this. However, since I will only be running in sand only (not street) and the front and rear calipers pistons are the same size and I actually want the rear wheels to lock-up before the fronts (so I can fishtail when I want too), I might not need one. I'll see how it handles first and then, if necessary, I will add a proportioning valve.
Paleale wrote:You might want to think about running a bigger bore master cylinder if you are going to run front brakes, also a proportioning valve will work better than a tee. The inline brake light sensor works great that is all I have ever used.
Actually, the brake master cylinder is 3/4" bore which, as far as I can tell it is the same size used on all Jamar brake MCs. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a larger Brake MC bore will require more foot pedal force to stop the car. Are you saying the brake pedal might be too sensitive with four disks brakes?
mrlongtravel wrote:You want the hose line to the crossover on top of motor to be the opposite side of the pump for the reason being that the coolant will flow the same distance, to both sides of the block before coming back together at the crossover. If you do it on the same side, coolant will take the path of least resistance and you will get less coolant flow on one side of the block versus the other side. Subaru had a reason for having the crossover connection point opposite side of the pump.
I came to the same conclusion. However, the big question is how much more resistance is created in the opposite side when the coolant manifold is turned around? I have been trying to think of an easy way to determine this but all I can think of is using some kind of "water flow meter" and directly measure the difference. I would think you can apply Ohm's Law to this problem solving for Parallel Resistance since water behaves very much like electricity but again, you need to know some values to start with which leads me back to a "water flow meter".

In anycase, I've already committed to turning the coolant manifold around and cutting-off the end. It makes the radiator hose routes much cleaner. Ultimately, I will have to run the engine for awhile and see how much hotter one side gets than the other. If it gets significantly hotter on the other side, then I will turn it around and re-route the radiator hoses the old way.
Scott

Idaho Falls

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