Woodglue's 87 250R TRX

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by RX 4 INSANDITY » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:24 pm

I see. :shock: :shock:

Based on what had been done to the bike to change the jetting by one size really does make sense.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:44 pm

yeah... what he said.
Thanks Brian, I don't know that I could've explained the where's & why's so elequently. :wink:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:54 pm

I keep working on it but the list isn't getting any shorter....
Woodglue wrote: Still on my to-do list for the summer:
-Repair the clutch
-Repair the water-pump leak
-Repair the kick-starter oil leak
-Replace the handle bar grips
-Replace my aSa flag.
Add:
-Replace head light housing and guard.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by LoBuck » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:52 pm

Dang. Its been many years since I rode a 2-stroke, but I picked plug chop #2 by the pic before reading the comments. Good choice Mike. Here's to another season on that top end. :-$
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by LoBuck » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:56 pm

My advise is to get the easy stuff done 1st.
Woodglue wrote: -Replace my aSa flag.
Here, let me help...

Doc, Please ship WG a flag and put a bill in the envelope.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:25 pm

:lol:
Thanks LB!
Surprised that you could pick the pic. Cause those are some pretty bad pics!
So, for that I say Double Good Job Glenn!
Take a look at the first plug and you'll know I was really struggling to keep up with the likes of Clay on that morning ride. I was really wishing that I had already got the jetting worked out!
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Sloppyduner » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:27 am

I wish I could by stock in this thread. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Washroad » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:02 am

It's going to get longer very soon. Woody broke it down again this weekend.....pulled his plug and had steam coming out of the hole! :lol: :lol: Me thinks head gasket..... :wink: :wink: See, the thing is, Woody just loves to work on the thing and won't leave it alone...... :lol: :lol: :lol: Running good?? Well, then, let's tear it down and see why!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I gotta ask......what head gasket you got on it Woody?

Ya know there are 3 different gaskets..... :?:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:07 am

Hope he drained it ASAP and got ALOT of oil like WD-40 into that thing. If not, this thread will get REAL long.

Woody- If you left it, even overnight, before getting the water out of it, you could be looking at doing an ENTIRE bottom end. Splitting the crank, everything. Water and needle bearing DO NOT MIX. Hopefully you had a good amount of antifreeze in it and that should help.

Speaking of old 2 strokes, I just recently had the chance to rebuild a two cylinder Merc that had stuck because the RUBBER water pump impeller was disintegrated. The owner thought it was toast. After all this was made in about 1970 and the last of this model was produced in 1974! Couple hours with sandpaper, $20 for the impeller from a vintage parts dealer, and it runs as good as it did before the "stick". Actually breaking the glaze on the cylinders may have made it work a little better. :D Anyway, I had never done the "just take the alum off the cylinder, sand down the high spots on the piston, and call it good" thing. A buddy swore he did this on his Jetski multiple times over the years, but this was my first time to "need" to do this. The owner of the Merc was amazed it even ran at all after sticking it multiple times trying to get off the water, seeing the shape of the pistons, and all the sanding I did........I was amazed too. 8) Of course there were no gaskets involved and everything became silicone. Fortunately the Merc design, which I found extremely simple and durable, has NO head gasket. We did find one person that had pistons.....for $160 A PIECE!! :shock: All in all, it was a good way to spend a rainy day, and very satifying to see the guys face when it started and I ran accross the lake. Combo of :o :shock: :D

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:42 pm

My head gasket is the metal one, disassembled so that I’m using only one thin piece… not the whole 1/8” thick gasket. But, this isn’t the problem as the head gasket and base basket were both in tact. Perhaps the steam out of the sparkplug hole was just gas and / or oil vapor.

The coolant system had plenty of fluid in it [i.e. was full] and the overflow bottle was still full.

I drained the oil, and there are no signs of water in it, and there are no signs of oil in the coolant fluid.

I don’t think this problem is related to the top end ‘look’ that I did a few months ago. I wish it was…

Nope, there’s more to the story than that.

Tore down the top-end yesterday, and first thing to come off was the head. It had a strange abraded / pitted surface. Most pits are linear, and adjacent to these is a pry of metal. The end result is a head that can cut your finger.

The top of the piston is very much the same. Pitted, but not nearly as many sharp metal pries. Pushed the piston down, and the cylinder wall looked to be in real good shape [no scarring or pitting].
I removed the cylinder from the base. The base gasket looks fine.
There is a few ‘gashes’ on the side of the piston running from the top downward where the piston skirt recesses. There are 3 of the gashes, all are about 1/8” wide and 1/16” deep. All run through the rings, hence the loss of compression.

Clearly, a piece of metal found its way onto the top of the piston and had a blast up there.
Neither of the rings are broken.
There is no metal missing from the Carb, Reed Cage, air boot or cylinder. The plug that was removed is not damaged.
There is minimal metal found in the transmission.

I am suspicious as to where the metal came from.
Tonight, I will try to find a way to look into the crank case to find the source of all this metal.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Sandcock » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:47 pm

Nows the time to get Woodputty involved :wink:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:19 pm

This is the exhaust side of the cylinder, taken from the bottom.
At the bottom of the skirt, you can see some real lite signs of pitting.
All in all, the cylinder looks pretty good, and I'm hopeful that a light hone is all it'll need.
eng 032.JPG
The piston, on the other hand, is a different story.
eng 027.JPG
eng 026.JPG
I was trying to get a pic to show the texture of the top of the piston. The inside of the head looks worse than this.
eng 030.JPG
Once I figure out what the problem is, I'll have WoodPutty involved. :lol:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodputty » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:23 pm

Woodglue wrote:Once I figure out what the problem is, I'll have WoodPutty involved.
Ha! That'll never happen. :lol:

Dang Dad, why dont you just get a four-stroke? :roll:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Sandcock » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:55 pm

I think Woodputty has something there dad............but you still need to keep that antique, fix her up and she's like a cool ole car.................gets the awes and oooo's, and appreciates :wink:

that piston looks narsty......sompin's hapnin in da hole :shock:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by ChuckZilla » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:54 pm

That sucks Mike, probably should R&R that motor top to bottom now.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Sloppyduner » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:04 am

Woodputty wrote: Dang Dad, why dont you just get a four-stroke? :roll:
Your a wise man, my boy. I was tell'n your dad that just the other night. I still would like to know what the temp was between 10 & midnight.

That piston looked good for a steak or chicken but as a part of a motor even I don't think it looks too good.

Hey not saying this is what happened but what does a 2 stroke look like after being run without pre mix?
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:24 am

Sloppyduner wrote:
Woodputty wrote: Hey not saying this is what happened but what does a 2 stroke look like after being run without pre mix?
Well, it doesn't look like THAT. More like what he had previously.

Man, if it weren't for bad luck, you wouldn't have any at all. Is it possible that something feel into the engine when you had the head off just "looking"? The piston looks pretty clean, but if it did have a major water leak, it would be almost totally clean. I seem to remember you running Yama R which runs pretty clean anyway, but only you know how many hours, or minutes in your case :P , are on the piston. It doesn't appear to have any water issues to me.

Let's see. You can sell the R for 1500-2000 and then spend 4-5k on a four stroke, or you can do what I recommended from the start. Take that engine to a professional, like Duncan, pay up a little, and run it for a LLLLLOOOOOONNNNNNNGGG time.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:48 am

crash wrote: Is it possible that something feel into the engine when you had the head off just "looking"?
I suppose anythings possible, but the 'look' tear down was many many riding hours ago. I did it in June, and this happened on the 3rd Night Ride Trip after that.
crash wrote:I seem to remember you running Yama R which runs pretty clean anyway, but only you know how many hours, or minutes in your case :P , are on the piston.

Come on man, I know I've established a bit of a 'image' by posting this stuff, but in all honesty that piston has been in there since Jan2007.... 19 months of hangin' with the likes of Clay, Jake & Robert [er uh trying to]. I do burn YamaLube 2R.
crash wrote:Let's see. You can sell the R for 1500-2000 and then spend 4-5k on a four stroke, or you can do what I recommended from the start. Take that engine to a professional, like Duncan, pay up a little, and run it for a LLLLLOOOOOONNNNNNNGGG time.
I don't see how doing that could have prevented this. :-#

==================
Spent most of last night playing 'wheres waldo', looking for the metal that caused this damage.
I ended up pulling the engine out of the bike and turning it over to drain the crank case.
No metal.
Looking inside the crank case... no metal. Rotating the crank, no metal. Can't hear any metal, can't see any metal, cant feel any metail [i.e. the crank spins smoothly].

So, where'd the metal come from? ](*,)
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:36 am

Well by the looks of the piston, it has been in there for quite some time. Have you tried dumping out the pipe and silencer? If it was big enough, it may have settled in there, otherwise went out the pipe. Check the lower rod bearing to make sure all the rollers are in there. IIRC there should be no gap between the rollers. A gap indicates a missing roller. Can't remember if tey are caged or not. Thinking actually that they are. In any case, to check that you will have to look into the window in the rod and turn it to see all the rollers.

You know I have to throw a jab at you here as the only other thread that comes close to this one is the PW thread. :wink:

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:08 am

Good point about the silencer and pipe, I hadn't checked there.
As you can tell from the pics, I've been in hopes that I wouldn't have to remove the exhaust [just to save time]. But, in my obsession to find the metal, I'll do just about anything at this point.

This brings to mind another question... once I find the metal... that doesn't do me any good unless I know WHERE IT CAME FROM.

So, the search continues.
Thanks for the tip on checking the bearing rollers.

Tonight, I'll check these things.
-Mike.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:13 am

Woodglue wrote:
Woodglue wrote: Still on my to-do list for the summer:
-Repair the clutch
-Repair the water-pump leak
-Repair the kick-starter oil leak
-Replace the handle bar grips
-Replace my aSa flag.
Add:
-Replace head light housing and guard.
:lol: Some of this stuff will be pretty easy with the engine sitting on my work bench.
I'm thinking of the clutch, kick-starter and water-pump leak.

No can replace the head-light housing and guard.... they've both been discontinued by Honda.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:49 am


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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:52 am

You're right. No go at bike bandit. Listed but unavailable. :(

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Sandcock » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:36 pm

The hill was spotless (er so I was told)!
NC Yamaha has a nice 2008 700 Special Edition, Gray and Red...........was 7400...........now 6400 :P
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by NMERIDER » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:54 pm

I know you said the plug looked fine but that piston looks exactly like one I had that the tip of the spark plug broke off from. The scoring on the side of the piston looks to be about the right size too. You sure a piece didn't break off?

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:04 pm

I've been thinking the same thing NME.
I still have that plug, and I'll check it tonight.
The thing is, it broke right after we left China Wall on Sat Night, and I rode it all the way back to camp. If the plug was broken, it probably wouldn't have carried me that far.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by NMERIDER » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:15 pm

The one I had was my son's cr 80. It ran bad for a day or so till my son told me it was really hard to start. Ran like crap but still ran. A piece of the plug was still embedded in the crown of the piston when I took it apart. Like I said, your piston looks EXACTLY the same as that 80's did. Does the dome in the head look similar? mine did. Wierd stuff.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:46 pm

Just because the ground electrode breaks off, or a part of it does, doesn't mean that the thing won't run. If your ignition is strong, it will still fire.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:24 pm

I was thinking about the plug, and I swear it was ok.
To be sure, I called the_fog, who also looked at the plug Sat night.
We both recall the plug being fine, other than the fact that it was really wet.
Further, the old plug gap matched the new plug gap [which I had pre-gapped to .020"].

The piston dome shows no sign of hitting the spark plug. Here's a better pic:
eng 020.JPG

And here's the moon shot for the Night Ride Group's Page in the ASA's 2010 Calendar! :lol:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by ChuckZilla » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:45 pm

Woodglue wrote:I was thinking about the plug, and I swear it was ok.
To be sure, I called the_fog, who also looked at the plug Sat night.
We both recall the plug being fine, other than the fact that it was really wet.
Further, the old plug gap matched the new plug gap [which I had pre-gapped to .020"].

The piston dome shows no sign of hitting the spark plug. Here's a better pic:
eng 020.JPG

And here's the moon shot for the Night Ride Group's Page in the ASA's 2010 Calendar! :lol:
eng 017.JPG

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by GlamisLovingFool » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:36 pm

Could something(metal) have been in that new fuel tank of yours and then found its way out? I know that you have several rides on it, but that is certainly something that has not been a "constant" on your bike. You may try looking there. I also recall that you had to replace a part that you broke on the "new" tank. Could it have been from that as well? Just a couple of ideas. Talk to you later Woody. Good luck with the hunt.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:58 am

Two reasons why I don't think it's from the tank.

1) The tank SHOULD have a screen filter on the pickup.

2) By looking at the gouges on the side of the piston, I would say that a piece of metal THAT big would have an EXTREMELY hard time getting past the valve, much less moving down the fuel line.

3?) I also run an in line fuel filter. Don't know if WG does or not, but if so, no possible way it came through the fuel line.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by DuneRookie » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:38 am

Didn't think 2 strokes had valves per say. :) Debris most likely got sucked in from intake. WG did you find anything when you tore it down? It is definately frustrating when stuff like this happens.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Washroad » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:06 am

I talked with Woody about this last night.....

A chunk of debris big enough to cause this kind of damage couldn't possibly get past a fuel filter, through the carb, the reeds and into the tank unless it's a 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000 chance.

I'm thinking something broke off inside, some little chunk, got down in the crankcase, swirled a bit, sucked up through the transfer ports, beat the crap out of the piston and then exited the exhust. I had a piece of a ring do that to mine; beat up everything and then left!

After talking last night, I'm convinced that his engine is OK. What he should do, since it's time anyway, ya know, they recommend a new piston every 30 hours of riding, is to just make sure the bottom-end bearings are good, put in a new crank seal, fix the clutch, install a new piston and have the cylinder honed and ride the thing!

That's my opinion, but I could be wrong.

Definition of a four-stroke-----a Banshee.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:22 am

DuneRookie wrote:Didn't think 2 strokes had valves per say.
I was referring to the fuel tank shut off valve. :wink:

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:27 am

Washroad wrote: After talking last night, I'm convinced that his engine is OK. What he should do, since it's time anyway, ya know, they recommend a new piston every 30 hours of riding, is to just make sure the bottom-end bearings are good, put in a new crank seal, fix the clutch, install a new piston and have the cylinder honed and ride the thing!

That's my opinion, but I could be wrong.

Definition of a four-stroke-----a Banshee.
Even if it DID need major work, I think he's still better off with what he's got at this point, so your opinion is my opinion too.

I'm also with ya on the four stroke thing. If a Banshee four stroke is sitting next to one of the "new" four strokes, and I get to choose, it's gonna be the Shee EVERYTIME.

Oh, and just so no one is confused, such as in the previous couple posts, a Shee is a four stroke because it is a two cylinder two stroke. :wink:

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Sandcock » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:32 pm

washr and crashy be nice..........4-stroke
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Washroad » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:31 pm

I'll let Woody post.....he called me on the way back from Q & E (the machinist).... :(
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:00 pm

My diary, continued...

Last night, I removed the engine side cover and the FMF Fatty Pipe. The Kick starter seal is removed here, as I plan to replace it to stop a leak.
good fun 015.JPG
This is a picture of the original spark-plug, and next to it is the only piece of debris that came out of the Pipe [again, no metal].
good fun 003.JPG
Some damage on the crank wheeel that I noticed after I got the engine on the workbench Monday night.
good fun 005.JPG
It was damaged on two sides.
good fun 006.JPG
I inspected the crank bearing and found that all the needles were evenly spaced as shown here.
good fun 008.JPG
Ready to get into the clutch now.
good fun 010.JPG
Removed the lifting rod.
good fun 011.JPG
Removed the other rod. These rods has some debris on them which I'm thinking was causing the stiff operation.
good fun 012.JPG
Removed the clutch plates.
good fun 013.JPG
Inspected the clutch plates, all of them looked very good. No discoloration, no damage.
good fun 014.JPG
I plan to reassemble the clutch and see if cleaning it helped for an easier operation.

======

Josh, good to see you on the board again! To answer your question, my used-but-new gas tank has a new-and-new strainer assembly that I installed just this summer. As you noted, there's been lotsa rides between then and now. And as crash noted, it would be pretty hard for anything to get through that strainer.
IMG_3174.JPG
As Brian posted, I took the head and the cylinder down to Q&E in Anaheim today and we think we found the metal.

I explained the whole story that all you already know.
He looked at the inside of the head, and said,
"You're sure your bottom end is in tact?".
I told him that the rod had no vertical play at all, and that I removed the dry-cover and found that the fly wheel had no play either. I told him that there was no metal AT ALL to be seen in the bottom end, and that 'rinsing' the bottom end produced no metal.
He walked around the corner for a second and came back with a fist full of bad bearings and said,
"these all came from guys who said that they don't have a problem with their bottom end."
Further, he held up the head and said
Steel did this, and there's only so much steel in your engine. Your rings are steel, and these bearings are steel (pointing at the pile on the counter).

He goes on...
If this were my bike, I'd split the cases and atleast inspect the bearings.
I told him that I inspected the crank bearing and it looked ok. He said,
your crank bearing is probably ok, I'm thinking its your Main Bearings.
:roll:

In addition to this, he pulled out a 2-stroke crank sitting on the shelf to talk about. Unrelated, he asked how my rod-play compared to this one. I told him that it was about the same for vertical play, but horizontal play was +/-1/8" from nominal. The horizontal play on his was +/-1/32" at the most.
Dude just shook his head, and said that I might need a new crank to.

Now before all the skeptics here go on about how this guy's a crook or something, I do trust that he's being honest. I've had all my clyinder work done by him.

Long story short [unless it's too late for that], total rebuild will be $830.00 including a new crank, piston, gaskets, main-bearings, crank bearings, seals & cylinder bore/hone. $670.00 is the cost for all the same, minus the replaced crank & crank bearing.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:04 pm

I almost forgot...
The cylinder needs to be bored out. At present, it's at a 6750 bore and the next size piston available is the last one.... IIRC it's a 6800. So, this will be my last bore on this cylinder. :(
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by ChuckZilla » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:12 pm

And what sucks is he's probably right, I've been down the road with 2-stroke bottom ends and it's a frustrating, expensive gig. One has to remember that the crank depends on only a mist of oil from the fuel mixture as it passes through the crank case on it's way to the head, and if things aren't perfect well...............
I'm not here to hate on two strokes, just remarking. Good luck with your rebuild Mike, I know what it's like.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Washroad » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:47 pm

Q & E have always been straight up with me and I've been going to them for about 14 years now.

I've had work done elsewhere and while I wasn't alway disappointed, these guys took the time to explain what was wrong and showed it to me (stuff I would've missed).

They even repaired my cases when Honda said they were junk!

The last engine they did was my wife's '87 R, gave it back to me, added the clutch upgrade, very clean, all I had to do was add oil and install.

So, while I didn't think Woody had chunks of his case breaking off, I never thought about the bearings breaking up.

I hope it's not too terrible when they get into it.

But they're all salvagable!



(Where did crashy's post go?)
Last edited by Washroad on Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Sloppyduner » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:58 pm

Ight all you Raptor people!!!! Aint not a dang thing wrong with these 2 strokes. In fact I'd like to see your Raptors in 20 years. :D

Sorry I hadda say something. I've ridden a lot of quads and this 250 has surprised the heck out of me. I mean look how fat I am. I'm even talking about 400s and 700's I've ridden.

Now I'm starting to feel bad about sugesting to Woody going 4 stroke. #-o

Besides if Mike bails on his TRX then when mine blows up I'd have to get a 4 stroke. [-X

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by gelwell » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:49 am

Mike while you have this thing out get the bottom end done. I think your mechanic is right I've been thinking bearings the whole time thru this thread. I would just gitr done and be done with it. You have all next season to think about.
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:02 am

Thanks Gene.

Last night, I didn't do much work on it.
I put the waterpump back together with new gaskets and I cleaned the reed cage. I also started the dreaded process of cleaning all the old gasket material off the parts. This is really not fun, as I use silicone on all the gaskets when assembeling.

Momma has granted the funds for the repair, but I still want to change it up a bit.

I'm going to buy a new crank, main bearings, crank bearings and all the seals & gaskets.
"A friend" and I are going to split the cases this weekend and inspect for the suspected damage. From there, we will self perform the bottom-end rebuild. :D
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:21 am

I'm assuming that the crank will be assembled when you get it with rod and rod bearing? If not, DO NOT EVEN TRY TO DO THIS YOURSELF!!

Still stuck on the DIYer route, eh? :roll:

I'm the biggest tight *** your ever gonna find. If I can save a buck I will, but my experience has taught me that when it comes to two stroke bottom ends, LET THE PROFESSIONALS DO IT.

That's my opinion when something "funny" is going on as well. Which is why I suggested what I did early on in this fiasco. Imagine how much $$$ you would have saved? Well, you can lead a horse to water.....

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by NMERIDER » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:09 am

Ditto on that crank rebuild. Check out the instructional videos on the rocky mtn. web site. there is a 3 part series on crank bearing replacment that's very good. Might want to take a file to the high spots on your outer clutch basket too. Make's that clutch action smoooooth. I'll be doing the same to Shelbys 250R soon.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Woodglue » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:22 am

[quote=""crash""]I'm assuming that the crank will be assembled when you get it with rod and rod bearing? If not, DO NOT EVEN TRY TO DO THIS YOURSELF!![/quote]
Confirmed.

First there was this:
Woodglue wrote:[quote=""crash""]Let's see. You can sell the R for 1500-2000 and then spend 4-5k on a four stroke, or you can do what I recommended from the start. Take that engine to a professional, like Duncan, pay up a little, and run it for a LLLLLOOOOOONNNNNNNGGG time.
I don't see how doing that could have prevented this. :-# [/quote]

And now, there's this:
[quote=""crash""]
Still stuck on the DIYer route, eh? :roll:

I'm the biggest tight *** your ever gonna find. If I can save a buck I will, but my experience has taught me that when it comes to two stroke bottom ends, LET THE PROFESSIONALS DO IT.

That's my opinion when something "funny" is going on as well. Which is why I suggested what I did early on in this fiasco. Imagine how much $$$ you would have saved? Well, you can lead a horse to water.....[/quote]

At first, I was :-# with your beating of the dead horse here. But now, I would appreciate your advanced dissertation as to how "TAKING IT TO THE PROFESSIONALS" for my TOP END REBUILDS would have prevented "this fiasco" with my bottom end.

Fact remains “crash”; they are not at all related. So can you get off the band wagon already?


:roll:
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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by crash » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:56 am

I'm not gonna reread this whole thing, but as I recall, you got into the bottom end, at least with seals, and, now this is just speculation here, but if you had had a pro doing this and the bottom end bearings were ANYWHERE near being bad, he most likely would have caught that. Also, at least with Duncan, I know he will set the whole thing up for you if that's what you pay him for. Granted whoever did it probably wouldn't have even gotten into the bottom end, but you would have saved plenty on pistons and bores in the long run.

All I'm trying to get at is that, from the start, I told you it would end up being cheaper to take the thing to a "pro" and payup, but you choose not to do that, but I stand by my recommendation, and I think it's what you should do here too. I'm trying to get you to come to the realization that, while yes you did learn a lot and it may have been a worthwhile experience for you personally, IMHO, you should learn from past experience and not keep ](*,) . When someone deals with a piece of equipment on a daily basis, they know what is right and wrong, and what works and what doesn't. Sure there are lot's of people with experience around on this board, but nothing beats the guy whose LIFE is your two stroke. If for no other reason, take the thing to a pro so that if something happens down the line you can take it back to him and see what the story is. Most likely it won't come to that. He wants to keep feeding his kids.

BTW- I don't know what bandwagon you're talking about. Very definitely an "I told you so attitude" but only to get you to not make the same mistake again. That's all.

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Re: Woodglue's 87 250R TRX Rebuild, Carb adjustment, etc.

Post by Washroad » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:37 pm

Mike has has a few problems with this engine....but he's had more good hard riding than down time.

No professionals involved.

I remember taking mine to a professional....a famous builder in Anaheim.

Many $$$ later and way too much time, I get it back, install it and smoke it again in 3 days. So, like a dumbass, I go back to the very same professional . He has it for 3 weeks, calls me and tells me one of the biggest lies I've ever heard. I go in the next day to get my engine back and find out work that I did not authorize is done and they won't give it back to me. I went to the owner and raised hell right then and there. I got my professionally rebuilt engine back and installed it.

Smoked it again in 6 days.

Got with a local dude, no shop, just been doing these a long time. We went through the whole thing together. Installed it and it ran for the next 7 seasons. I also spent less $$$ than the professional charged for doing less. Yeah, the professional missed several things, but wtf did he care?

Yeah, that famous professional was a lot of help, ya know? (He's still in business but I won't even buy a part from them.)

So, crash, while you want to advertise for Duncan, and I'm certain they build good motors, they are not necessary in the least.

The crank.....everybody knows you don't assemble a crank/rod. Get it done by someone that knows what's up. Q & E have them for a very good price (exchange).

Woody, as you take things out, put them in baggies and mark them clearly. It certainly helps.
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